Paul: My Thoughts On Proposition 8



I have to say that even though I should have expected this outcome I was a little surprised. A lot of the reaction I am hearing from gay folks in other parts of the country and around the world is that they are going to boycott California to try and teach the state a lesson. I don’t really think this is worthwhile or possible. A lot of great businesses and products are made in California, and why punish the 49% who didn’t fuck up. I want to ask those people, where’s your anger?

The problem with obtaining equal rights is that in the west and many other parts of the country we have shitty systems that allow people to collect signatures and put garbage like this on the ballot. They’ve done it in dozens of times and damn near every one has passed. This isn’t a California problem, it’s a problem with our goverment that allows the majority to decide the will of an oppressed minority.

This measure tangibly hurts our people inside and outside of California, had it gone down the asshole who voted for it would not have been affected at all. I think if we are going to get our point across being nice isn’t going to work. How many of those yes-voters do you think laugh their asses off watching Ellen’s show? We need to make them suffer through indivual acts of resistence and protest.

If you live in California and walk by a parked car with a yes on 8 sticker, key it. Slash the tires. Break a window on a house with a yard sign. Vandalize their homes and thier churches. It won’t be as bad as what they have done to us, but it’s something. Don’t get youself in trouble, but if you get the opportunity to hurt them you should take it. We need a federal solution to this problem, but in order to get it we need to show our anger.


8 Responses to “Paul: My Thoughts On Proposition 8”

  1. November 5, 2008 at 8:02 pm

    You say “We need to make them suffer through indivual acts of resistence and protest”, yet advocate people vandalize and create damage to people who support a point counter to yours? And if the Yes on 8 people put out the same orders to their followers against the No on 8 crowd, would that also be OK?

    Come on. If you want to prove a point, it is always better to be rational. 48% of the population was against Prop 8. That’s progress, and I’m sure this one can go the other way the next time around. BUT the second you advocate violence and vandalism, you will see an immense drop-off in interest in your cause.

  2. November 6, 2008 at 12:45 am

    i agree with you 100% so i hope you’re not being sarcastic, HAHA. we had a huge march this eve but it was in WEST HOLLYWOOD (gay mecca) and the numbers were awesome to see, but i want to storm the streets of suburbia!

    tomorrow we go to the big mormon temple on the west side to protest. hopefully that will be more interesting…

  3. 3 The Bearded Traveler
    November 6, 2008 at 8:16 am

    I agree with the comment above, in the matter of location. Yes, location location location of protest. It was a real shame when people protested the Rodney King verdict by destroying their own communities. I always felt that if the people of Watts and Compton had just marched on the police stations and just SHUT THEM DOWN, have 200,000 people say, “We ARE NOT moving until Chief Gates is gone,” or something like that. They could’ve REALLY changed LA. Instead, black-owned businesses were burnt and looted and nothing changed.

    So yeah, DON’T protest in gay mecca, protest at the churches who put up 90 billion Yes On 8 signs. Go to those churches, let them know- we’re aware of your bigotry, NOW we are TELLING you and the whole world (YouTube, Flickr, Photobucket, etc) that we know what you did and we are not going away.
    Ideally, I’d like to see Michael-Moore-type wildcat-interviews with digital cams: “Why are you against personal rights? Why are you for suppressing civil rights? Does your church ALWAYS discriminate, or do you just pick and choose?” Put em on YouTube. Show the faces of narrow-mindedness. The KKK hides behind robes. These people hide behind regular anonymity and group-bullying. Call ’em out.

  4. 4 gaycondo
    November 6, 2008 at 8:21 am

    Where’s your anger LOUDelf? If we don’t show them that we are pissed off then no change will happen. I agree that there is a time for being rational, but you can’t deal rationally with hateful, irrational people. Hate begets hate.

  5. 5 gaycondo
    November 6, 2008 at 11:01 am

    Even though rage surges through me sometimes I don’t really want to advocate violence or vandalism. I think that will just piss everyone off even more.

    What can we do? I think the best thing we can do is talk about this issue to create awareness that THERE ARE CIVIL/HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS occuring against America’s GLBT population. Even if you don’t agree with gay marriage I hope we can all agree that this is a human rights issue.

    We cannot be a free people if others are getting brushed underneath the carpet.

    I’m only speaking for myself here but I don’t feel like I feel much oppression about being a queer woman on a daily basis. I came out when I was fourteen and knew I was queer ever since I was in 2nd grade. In fact, I think the last bout of teasing or blantant homophobic slander on my sexual orientation was in middle school. I was lucky to have grown up in a relatively supportive community and I was lucky that my parents were open to letting me be who I was and supported me by taking me to GLBT support groups when I was 15. Unfortunately, not everyone has had such a good coming out experience.

    However, when measures like Proposition 8 pass I am reminded that I am an oppressed minority and along with millions of other GLBT folks. This makes me sad.

    If I was calling the shots here is what I would do – Everyone – gay or straight – gets civil unioned and receives the SAME legal/benefits. If someone wants to have the label of “marriage” – which I consider to be a religious term – it will be up to the particular Church to decide if they want to support such a union. This marriage certificate will not provide any additonal rights to the couple – they will just have the access to a ceremony watched over by God. There are many churches out there that are open to GLBT people and hopefully, they would support the Godly Gays. I think this is a good idea because that way the whole religious idealogy or “threat to traditional marriage” won’t even be an issue. It will also draw the lines deeper between church and state since this issue is totally blurring it’s separation. Thoughts?


  6. 6 The Bearded Traveler
    November 6, 2008 at 1:25 pm

    Yes, Em, marriage and the government DON’T mix and shouldn’t be allowed to.

    CIVIL UNIONS for LEGAL rights.

    MARRIAGE for personal/ spiritual/ community-affiliated recognition of relationship status.

    …as for polygamous relationships… I’m NOT sure. I haven’t thought much about them. The anti-gay-marriage crowd uses polygamy as a “gotcha” against gay marriage, like “Oh, so you support gay marriage, but what about polygamy!?!? That would be CHAOS and ANARCHY.” So they say. I’m NOT threatened by polyamory or polygamy. I think it makes sense for some people… hell, maybe ME, someday (I take an open-minded, never-say-never attitude as often as I can). I think something can be worked out though. I’m NOT of the closed-mindset that, “Oh, you got me there, conservative talkshow host, I can’t think now, you stumped me.” I frankly don’t think it will be an issue often, and something could be worked out with simple legal rights for people to visit in hospitals, divide business holdings and responsibilities, pay taxes– the few and only things that MATTER or SHOULD matter to the govt in regards to recognizing relationships.

  7. November 6, 2008 at 1:56 pm


    You say “you can’t deal rationally with hateful, irrational people. Hate begets hate.” It also gets you jailed, looked upon with outrage, and so on.

    The biggest factor keeping the gay community down is fear. Fear of anything drives humans to act. In this case fear of disease, cultural change, religion, etc (right, wrong, or completely insane) are driving the “Yes” crowd. You encouraging people to act irrationally will only strengthen that 52% to continue their crusade. You need people like me that say “Laws should be meant to protect safety and property, not legislate morality, and therefor they should not prohibit same-sex marriage”. Causing violence would take level-headed people like me out of your corner, as well as fence-sitters.

    What will work is constant pressure, and not trying to show how different you are from the 52%, but how similar.

  8. 8 gaycondo
    November 7, 2008 at 7:31 pm

    “Causing violence would take level-headed people like me out of your corner, as well as fence-sitters.”

    I may have been a little bit harsh, but straight white people obviously don’t understand the rage that we feel right now. I think my reaction is perfectly natural. As far as getting people like you in our corner, I object to that. I don’t think an oppressed group’s basic rights ought to be decided by a largely bigoted majority. Don’t act like you’re doing us a favor. We’re only asking for equality and what should rightfully be ours.

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